Known for “Braid,” one of the most popular and successful independently created games to date, as well as for his somewhat controversial views on the mass video game market, independent game developer Jonathan Blow is currently developing his next game “The Witness.” In conjunction with the Hammer Museum’s “Game Room” exhibition, Blow is lecturing at the Hammer later today, and briefly spoke with Daily Bruin’s Colin Reid about his personal philosophy on game creation and how a game should remain entertaining, yet still innovative.
Daily Bruin: Would you say video games are an art form? Should they always strive to impart some kind of message?
Jonathan Blow: I don’t really like thinking about things that way. All these ‘games are art’ discussions get really tedious, and the main reason is that everybody has a different idea about what the word art means. Things get pretty messy very quickly, so I don’t really care. When I sit down to play a game, I just want it to be interesting. I don’t care if you call that art, if it’s interesting in a way that’s art, or if it’s interesting in some other way, I just want it to be interesting. … (So) I don’t think that’s an art versus art question, I think it’s just a basic question of creativity and the desire to make something that isn’t a copy of the last game.
DB: Independent game developer Thatgamecompany recently won multiple awards at the Video Game Awards show for their Playstation 3 exclusive “Journey.” Your own title “Braid” also garnered multiple awards when it was released back in 2008. So where is the line drawn between blockbuster title and indie game? What’s the difference between the two types of games if both hit mass markets on a hugely successful level?
JB: Well there’s a huge difference. Even with a game like “Journey,” which a lot of people played, … there’s not even a comparison (with the number of people who play “Call of Duty”). Most people in the world who think they really like video games have not heard of “Journey.” It’s only if you’re paying attention to stuff in the margins, that you really know about that. Again, “Journey” is one of the most successful independent games, so by the time you get to be moderately successful or somewhat unsuccessful, really no one’s heard about them. So that’s sort of the difference, aside from budget level.
DB: “Braid” is a platform and time-bending puzzle game, while “The Witness” is a 3-D puzzle game which features maze and labyrinth exploration. What went into the creation of these different types of puzzles, and how do you make sure to always innovate on the design, while still keeping it intuitive?
JB: Well, a lot of games get designed in a top-down way where you decide before you make the game, what the game is about. Then you decide all the details and then you basically make the details happen. The flaw in that approach is that you’re limited by your initial idea. The most interesting idea that you had is what you’re going to end up making, and probably less than that because games are hard to make so you end up not being able to do everything that you wanted.
With (“Braid” and “The Witness”), what I did was a little bit different. I decided at the beginning what the game was probably about, but I didn’t try to figure out all the details. I just looked at what happened with that subject matter and started playing with it. … Sometimes that will make the game become something a little bit different than that initial idea I had, but it always becomes better and more interesting than the original idea. That’s sort of where the magic comes from, you find things that are better than what you (originally) thought of.
DB: You were featured in the 2012 documentary “Indie Game: The Movie.” Do you think it was successful in illuminating the financial and emotional struggles of indie game developers?
JB: I think so, but I (also) think I’m a little bit too close to the subject to really know. I’ve talked to a lot of people who have seen the movie, and they tell me they liked it. Often it’ll be people who don’t know anything about video games, and they’ll watch it and say ‘I sort of understand what’s going on now.’ That seems successful to me, but when you just make games for years and you’re just paying attention to that, you get a very focused view on it that’s very different than what everyone in the world sees. So it’s hard for me to judge honestly.
DB: You helped create the indie game investment organization Indie Fund, donating your own financial profit to help independent game developers create their own dream projects. Do you think your investments have been a success? Also, how has the recent rise of Kickstarter funding affected the relevance of Indie Fund, if at all?
JB: Our investments have definitely been a success. Every game that we’ve released so far has gone profitable, very quickly. … As for Kickstarter, I think it’s good anytime there’s more options for somebody who wants to make a project. One of the reasons that we started Indie Fund … is to help developers become independent. … What we were trying to do was provide an alternative to the traditional video game funding model, which is to go to a publisher. They give you a bunch of money, but in return they become totally in control, and then they force you to make decisions that aren’t in your best interest all the time.
I think different options are better for different kinds of people. I think Kickstarter works best if you either are someone who has a history of making successful games and you have fans that take the benefit of the doubt that what you’re going to make is going to be good, or if you can put together a really nice game demo that shows well in a video. (But) we know there are good developers who have interesting ideas for a game, but it’s not something that you can do a video of and get people excited. In cases like that, I think it’s quite natural for us to fund someone who wouldn’t do a Kickstarter. … As we go into the future, there are only going to be more options, and as developers, it’s sort of in our best interest to pay attention to the options so that way we can exploit them and combine them.
Email Reid at creid@media.ucla.edu.